Overcharged On The Vig?

Question: Ok i need some help understanding something. This is the second time i’ve had this happen to me. I’m not grasping the concept.

Normally a casino makes you pay a dollar for every 20 you bet when it comes to the vig(5%). Well lately i’ve been playing at four winds in MI. I’ve been playing on the crapless craps table

They are doing some kind of combined vig. I don’t understand at all so i will do my best to explain it.

They allow you to buy at 10 dollars there. So i buy the 2 and 12 for $10 dollars each. I pay $1 vig for the two of them. Same for the 3 and 11, and 4 and 10. So its only $3 dollars to buy the 2,3,4,10,11,and 12 for $10 dollars on each number. All of which will then get payed at true odds. And i completely understand up to that point. Except when i start pressing. If i press the 4 or 10 to $20 dollars, the dealer was asking for a $2 dollar vig. Where as i would normally just pay $1 for the $20 dollar bet. They are taking the vig upfront, which is fine, but why do i pay $2?




First, let's clarify what you're experiencing.  You come up to the table, and let's say you have only $63 in cash on you.  You buy-in for the whole $63, and buy the 2, 3, 4, 10, 11 and 12 for $10 each.  Your vig is $3 on your $60 total action.  At your casino, they probably take an additional $1 vig every time your total action increases by $10 over the "standard" $20 increment (it may even be less... you'll have to ask the casino what their breakage policy is).  Since it costs you $63 to book your desired bets, you have nothing in your rail in front of you.

YOUR SCENARIO:
Now, the 4 hits.  You want to press the 4 to $20.  Before the vig, the payout is $20.  In order to make your desired press, the dealer subtracts $10 from your payout to increase your bet, but also takes a $2 vig... at which point you start scratching your head.  The dealer gives you $8 change ($20 - $10 - $2 = $8), and this is what you have in your rail now.

THE CASINO'S LOGIC:
$70 total action requires a $4 vig at this casino and the only vig that has been (pre)paid after the 4 hits is $2.  Hence, they charge you an additional $2 for pressing to $70 total action.  Consider this...

ALTERNATE SCENARIO:
The 4 hits... but this time, you come down on the 4.  The dealer gives you a total of $30 ($20 payout + $10 original bet = $30), and this is what you put in your rail*.  Additionally, you decide that you want to come down on all of your other buy bets.  So he is going to give you the other $50 plus whatever vig is left.  Since your 4 already hit, $1 worth of vig has already been "used up".  Therefore, there is $2 in unused vig.  The dealer gives you back this $52, and now you have a total of $82 in your rail.

BUT... now you want to have your original setup of $63 buy bets PLUS the press on the 4 to $20.  So you will have $10 each on the 2, 3, 10, 11 and 12 plus $20 on the 4.  Since that is $70 total action, the casino must charge you a $4 vig (every $10, remember?).  So... you've got $82 in your rail, and you have to give the dealer $74 for your desired bets.  What have you got left in your rail?  $8... the same ending result as what you've been experiencing.

I hope that clarifies what you've been experiencing.

* - This is a somewhat simplified explanation so you will follow the logic.  You should see what happens if you just come down on the 4.  Technically, they should still charge you $1 for coming down.  This is because your $50 action remaining needs a $3 vig and only $2 hasn't been "used up".  That would give you $29 and down on the 4.  But... if you then came down on all of your other bets, that would now be an additional $53.  $53 + $29 = $82.  When you set up your $74 action, you'll still be left with $8, so the fact that they probably charge you $1 for coming down does not change the end result.

Do you have a topic or question related to casino gaming that you'd like to see discussed on this blog?  Send me an email at FogOfGambling@gmail.com and let me know!

Put Bet Availability/Popularity

Question: Just wondering about the put bets I have not heard them brought up where I play, is this a bet that most casinos do not offer or just uncommon to be asked for?


Put bets are definitely not offered in every casino that has Craps.  The reason may be because the casino may not offer enough odds to be taken on Put bets in order to make them mathematically better than Place bets.  Or, the casino may simply just not choose to allow them.

But the reason you may not have heard of them at your casino is probably because they are somewhat unpopular to begin with.  My experience tells me that the reason for this is more because people don't know about the bet, rather than they don't like the bet.  And of course, when players do know about them... the casino would have to offer favorable conditions and you would have to be betting with amounts to take advantage of those conditions in order for them to pay better than their corresponding Place or Buy bets.

However, even if you can take advantage of a Put bet's better payout, you sacrifice the ability to turn the bet "off" or take the entire bet down before it is resolved.  Many players value this flexibility that Place/Buy bets offer and is likely another reason that contributes to the unpopularity of Put bets.

Do you have a topic or question related to casino gaming that you'd like to see discussed on this blog?  Send me an email at FogOfGambling@gmail.com and let me know!

Will My Winning Streak Continue?

Question:  when i play [Craps] i take 2 come bets with 2x odds ......i play $25 dollar chips….i might maybe take a very ocassional hard way or field bet if i am playing with their money…..i have been keeping records of my won loss record as well as money won lost per session.
am i getting lucky and running hot or does this look about right to you ?
also keep in mind that when i play IF i lose 600 i fold the tent cap the loss.
if i am winning i usally will play until i make 2,000 or just get exhausted which ever comes 1st.
as of now i have 12 online sessions 2 live sessions that look like this.
WON 10
LOST   5
Live + 550….+ 175…...= 2 wins
online…all pluses on the this colum,,,1050…975…460….860…465….1445….1515….527
Online all lost….minus….410….620…500…540…510

do you think i am riding a hot streak or do you think the continuation of such type numbers could be realistic ?
I am under no illussions that i can beat the game or earn a living at it…...on the other hand i am starting to get the feeling i could vist AC like 8 times a year and come away a winner 5 of the 8 times for an overall profit.

Thanks for your question.  My honest answer is that it is impossible to accurately predict how you will do in the future playing Craps based on what has happened in the past.  There is nothing that says that you couldn’t continue winning like you currently have been… but there’s nothing that says that it won’t end, either.  Since the math of the game is not in your favor, it is more likely that you will not continue this streak… but that’s only “more likely” - nothing definite.

That’s probably not the kind of answer you wanted to hear.  Sorry about that.

Do you have a topic or question related to casino gaming that you'd like to see discussed on this blog?  Send me an email at FogOfGambling@gmail.com and let me know!

Insurance and Even Money in Blackjack

Question:  I never take insurance when I play blackjack and the dealer is showing an ace.  But when I have blackjack and the dealer has an ace showing, I always take even money.  I see many people doing the same thing as me, but sometimes people say that even money is just like taking insurance.  Who is right?

The short answer:  Taking even money is the same as taking insurance.

The long answer:  
Imagine that your initial bet was $10.  You get dealt blackjack, but the dealer's up-card is an ace.  Forgetting about "even money" for the moment, let's say that you decide to take full insurance of $5 (the maximum bet for insurance is half of your original blackjack wager).  If the dealer does indeed have blackjack, your original $10 wager will push, and your insurance bet gets paid 2 to 1, for a win of $10.  This is obviously a net win of $10.

If after taking insurance, the dealer does not have blackjack, you will lose your $5 insurance bet, but then get paid 3 to 2 (or 1.5x) your original wager... in this case a win of $15.  After you subtract your losses from the insurance bet, your net win here is also $10.

So no matter what happens, once you take full insurance, your net winnings will equal the amount of your original wager.  This is how the casino can offer you what's known as "even money".  So yes, if you take even money, you are essentially taking insurance.

Do you have a topic or question related to casino gaming that you'd like to see discussed on this blog?  Send me an email at FogOfGambling@gmail.com and let me know!

The Scorecards in Baccarat

Question:  I read that Baccarat is not only one of the best games to play in the casino, but also one of the most simple.  When I went to try it, I found that many people were using scorecards and tracking the results in various ways.  When I saw that, I was too scared to play and walked away.  Can you tell me what's up with those scorecards?

You're right, Baccarat (and all smaller versions of the game) is an easy game to play, and also has a relatively low house edge.  I assume you already understand how the game is played, so I won't discuss that here (although this information may be given in a future article, if requested).  About those scorecards...

Some casinos have provided scorecards to players so that they can keep track of the outcomes of the hands.  Also, some casinos have history boards that display the results of the most recent hands.  These are similar to the history boards that are popular in Roulette.

Players like to keep track of previous hands in different ways.  Most everybody who does this looks for trends by tracking which hand wins - either the Banker or Player.  But many people also like to record the exact values of the Banker/Player hands.  There is no "right way" to keep score, and you can use these scorecards any way you like.

However, keeping track of results, or even counting cards in Baccarat has not yet proved to be of any help when deciding whether to bet on the Banker, Player, or the Tie.  Casinos only offer scorecards to accommodate their superstitious players, or those who believe that past results can predict future results.

Keeping track of the outcomes is a waste of time - you don't have to do it even though everybody else at the table is.  The next time you walk up to a Mini-Baccarat game, don't be intimidated by what other players are doing, or how they are betting.  When it comes to deciding if the Banker or Player will win the next hand, your guess will be as good as theirs.

Do you have a topic or question related to casino gaming that you'd like to see discussed on this blog?  Send me an email at FogOfGambling@gmail.com and let me know!